Kent Beck
2002-08-20 17:08:08 UTC
Here is a discussion I had with the guy I had in mind while I was
writing the XPd on paper. I'm working on a new draft. In the meantime, I
would be interested in experiences folks have had trying to apply the
criteria in the first draft.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:10 PM
To: Kent Beck
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPed On
No problem forwarding the exchange.
I think I now know what you mean about people getting XPed on. I didn't
get it at first, partly because I do think that the tone of the article
is too emotional, and you may be taking it a bit personal. In every
organization, when there is either a reorganization or a major change,
people behave poorly and defensively until they figure out what it means
for them. They all figure it out at different times, which makes for
lots of dynamics over a period of time.
When I introduced XP to a business division of 600 people (300
developers) it was a huge cultural shock. It is true that some of my
developers tended to use XP as a shield. A very few tried to use it as
an excuse to disavow their responsibility to make projects come in on
time and on budget. Some used it an excuse for not making progress when
they did not get good user stories. A few created inflated estimates, a
few refused to work any overtime, etc. This was a minority of the
population, but they caused disproportionate ill will until they got it
figured out.
I think that rather than coming out and chastising developers for being
power grabbers, you could take a high road and simply explain that this
is a possible behavior that some developers will be tempted to adopt,
and that management should watch out for it. You could then describe
the signs that XP is being abused, as well as the signs that should
indicate whether people are really doing XP.
That makes me think, the signs that people are really doing XP don't
really guarantee that they are not abusing XP and grabbing too much
power. These are really two separate behaviors, and managers should
watch out for both. They have different symptoms.
As for the control of the environment, by all means take a wrench to the
desk and remove those drawers so someone can sit next to you
comfortably. Move into an underused conference room without asking
permission. Do all that, but don't expect management to knock down the
cube walls and put in the right environment for a full team unless you
have some committed, senior backing.
Brad J. (P.S. attached are my notes from the "lessons learned" panel I
was on at XPAU)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:01 AM
To: Jensen, Brad
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
I had heard stories about this sort of power grab before, but here I was
at this conference face to face with four very upset people who felt
disempowered by XP, and from four different teams. I felt personally
embarrassed (although that's not a very adult reaction), which probably
accounts for the too-emotional tone still in the paper.
I'm going to soften the comment about the work environment, but not
eliminate it. If all you can do is move your computer out of the corner
so you can pair, you should do that. And no one has gotten fired so far
for taking an Allen wrench to communication barriers, although I can
imagine it could happen.
Kent
P.S. Do you mind if I forward our exchange to the XP mailing list?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 5:05 PM
To: Kent Beck
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Kent,
Where are you seeing this "programmer's power grab"? This has not
happened in my team. The only "abuse" of XP has been that the
programmer's intitially said: "We won't code without the stories, and we
won't help you write the stories". I came down hard on them and got
them to change it to "We will help you write the stories. We will even
write them for you if you sign off on them. Otherwise, we can not be
held accountable for whether the functionality is what you wanted."
I'm curious to know what got you off on this tear. Brad J.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:29 PM
To: Jensen, Brad
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Thanks. That's exactly the feedback I was looking for. I'm pretty upset
about the situation, so I want to be very sure that I don't negatively
dump emotions in the paper. I'll send another draft in a few days.
3: I thought was covered in Planning XP under "Big Stories". I'll look
again.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:03 AM
To: Kent Beck; Lowell Lindstrom; Xp Leadership
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Kent,
This was a good article. My comments are:
1: I don't know where you plan to publish it, but I would not use the
word "shit".
2: Shared workspace. It is a little unfair to XP teams to say that
they do not understand "the extent of their authority and responsibility
for their environment." In typical companies, no XP team can change
their physical environment. It takes intervention from a very senior
manager who will fight a good fight for open space. Unless the team is
very lucky, this is not under their control.
3: Visible quarterly plan. Great stuff, but outside the definition of
what you originally defined as XP. I know that the spirit of XP is to
evolve, and AFTER A TEAM HAS REALLY BECOME PROFICIENT IN THE 12 XP
PRINCIPLES, then they should start evolving and improving. You are
trying to get the whole world to understand XP. You need to hold it
still long enough for everyone to get the idea before you start adding
new practices and portray them as things that expose "fake XPers". I
liked the article and I appreciate the last paragraph written just as
is. Thanks, Brad J.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:17 AM
To: Lowell Lindstrom; Jensen, Brad; Xp Leadership
Subject: Are You Getting XPd On
Here's the paper I mentioned. I'd love feedback on any aspect of it--
more questions/things to look for, tone, intervention advice at the end.
Kent
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writing the XPd on paper. I'm working on a new draft. In the meantime, I
would be interested in experiences folks have had trying to apply the
criteria in the first draft.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:10 PM
To: Kent Beck
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPed On
No problem forwarding the exchange.
I think I now know what you mean about people getting XPed on. I didn't
get it at first, partly because I do think that the tone of the article
is too emotional, and you may be taking it a bit personal. In every
organization, when there is either a reorganization or a major change,
people behave poorly and defensively until they figure out what it means
for them. They all figure it out at different times, which makes for
lots of dynamics over a period of time.
When I introduced XP to a business division of 600 people (300
developers) it was a huge cultural shock. It is true that some of my
developers tended to use XP as a shield. A very few tried to use it as
an excuse to disavow their responsibility to make projects come in on
time and on budget. Some used it an excuse for not making progress when
they did not get good user stories. A few created inflated estimates, a
few refused to work any overtime, etc. This was a minority of the
population, but they caused disproportionate ill will until they got it
figured out.
I think that rather than coming out and chastising developers for being
power grabbers, you could take a high road and simply explain that this
is a possible behavior that some developers will be tempted to adopt,
and that management should watch out for it. You could then describe
the signs that XP is being abused, as well as the signs that should
indicate whether people are really doing XP.
That makes me think, the signs that people are really doing XP don't
really guarantee that they are not abusing XP and grabbing too much
power. These are really two separate behaviors, and managers should
watch out for both. They have different symptoms.
As for the control of the environment, by all means take a wrench to the
desk and remove those drawers so someone can sit next to you
comfortably. Move into an underused conference room without asking
permission. Do all that, but don't expect management to knock down the
cube walls and put in the right environment for a full team unless you
have some committed, senior backing.
Brad J. (P.S. attached are my notes from the "lessons learned" panel I
was on at XPAU)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:01 AM
To: Jensen, Brad
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
I had heard stories about this sort of power grab before, but here I was
at this conference face to face with four very upset people who felt
disempowered by XP, and from four different teams. I felt personally
embarrassed (although that's not a very adult reaction), which probably
accounts for the too-emotional tone still in the paper.
I'm going to soften the comment about the work environment, but not
eliminate it. If all you can do is move your computer out of the corner
so you can pair, you should do that. And no one has gotten fired so far
for taking an Allen wrench to communication barriers, although I can
imagine it could happen.
Kent
P.S. Do you mind if I forward our exchange to the XP mailing list?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 5:05 PM
To: Kent Beck
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Kent,
Where are you seeing this "programmer's power grab"? This has not
happened in my team. The only "abuse" of XP has been that the
programmer's intitially said: "We won't code without the stories, and we
won't help you write the stories". I came down hard on them and got
them to change it to "We will help you write the stories. We will even
write them for you if you sign off on them. Otherwise, we can not be
held accountable for whether the functionality is what you wanted."
I'm curious to know what got you off on this tear. Brad J.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:29 PM
To: Jensen, Brad
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Thanks. That's exactly the feedback I was looking for. I'm pretty upset
about the situation, so I want to be very sure that I don't negatively
dump emotions in the paper. I'll send another draft in a few days.
3: I thought was covered in Planning XP under "Big Stories". I'll look
again.
Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: ***@sabre.com [mailto:***@sabre.com]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:03 AM
To: Kent Beck; Lowell Lindstrom; Xp Leadership
Subject: RE: Are You Getting XPd On
Kent,
This was a good article. My comments are:
1: I don't know where you plan to publish it, but I would not use the
word "shit".
2: Shared workspace. It is a little unfair to XP teams to say that
they do not understand "the extent of their authority and responsibility
for their environment." In typical companies, no XP team can change
their physical environment. It takes intervention from a very senior
manager who will fight a good fight for open space. Unless the team is
very lucky, this is not under their control.
3: Visible quarterly plan. Great stuff, but outside the definition of
what you originally defined as XP. I know that the spirit of XP is to
evolve, and AFTER A TEAM HAS REALLY BECOME PROFICIENT IN THE 12 XP
PRINCIPLES, then they should start evolving and improving. You are
trying to get the whole world to understand XP. You need to hold it
still long enough for everyone to get the idea before you start adding
new practices and portray them as things that expose "fake XPers". I
liked the article and I appreciate the last paragraph written just as
is. Thanks, Brad J.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Beck [mailto:***@threeriversinstitute.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:17 AM
To: Lowell Lindstrom; Jensen, Brad; Xp Leadership
Subject: Are You Getting XPd On
Here's the paper I mentioned. I'd love feedback on any aspect of it--
more questions/things to look for, tone, intervention advice at the end.
Kent
To Post a message, send it to: ***@eGroups.com
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-***@eGroups.com
ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/